[nginx-user] Please add [nginx] to subject

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[nginx-user] Please add [nginx] to subject

Stefan Mueller

Hallo,

Is it possible to configure this list to automatically prepend [nginx] to the subject line?  I feel like I miss messages sometimes because I don't realize it's from the list!
I subscribe to several different mailing lists and the only mailing list that wasn't already putting the mailing list title in the Subject line was nginx.

Sure [hidden email] is fine for actively filtering, or for putting everything into another folder, but every other mailing list I'm on tags the list name in the subject.  I'm missing messages because they're too easy to ignore without the word 'nginx' in the subject.
If you subscribe to several mailing lists you may want to know which email comes from which lists at a glance. So you can easier priorities which to read now and which later.
Sorting emails to separate folders depending on the source does have some advantages, but personally I find it considerably more convenient to categorize by folder after reading new emails, not before.

thank you

Stefan




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Re: [nginx-user] Please DO NOT add [nginx] to subject

Ralph Seichter
On 13.10.18 10:16, Stefan Müller wrote:

> Sure /[hidden email]/ is fine for actively filtering, or for putting
> everything into another folder, but every other mailing list I'm on
> tags the list name in the subject.

Then you are not subscribed the right mailing lists. ;-)

Seriously, this discussion is almost as old as mailing lists. Rewriting
the subject adds clutter, messes with some MUAs, wastes screen estate on
devices with small screens (e.g. smartphones), and breaks DKIM.

Filtering by the existing "List-Id" header works just fine. Also, you
can use address extensions with your Google Mail (and many others),
meaning that you can have your mailing list messages automatically
filtered/labelled properly. Look at my address in this message, it
uses "+nginx" as an extension.

-Ralph
_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
http://mailman.nginx.org/mailman/listinfo/nginx
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[nginx] Please add [nginx] to subject

Stefan Mueller

Hallo,

getting a separate email per mailing list gets messy, as there are to many.

Currently I'm subscribed to some mailing lists covering similar things compared with nginx. If all of them would work without a prepend [list title] it would be a mess to distinguish them and focus on them which are currently important.
When I open an email app or get email notification, the notification focuses on the subject, so I have to open the mail to know to which list it belongs to.

A year ago there was the same discussion on [hidden email], resulting in a prepend [digiKam-users]. It could be a bit shorter but it enables me to see what email is digikam related at a glance and the remaining space for the subject title gives me enough context to decided if I shall read or delete it. I'm doing that on a mid class phone. 

[nginx] would be enough instead of [nginx-user], as nearly any mailing list do.

thank you

Stefan

On 13.10.2018 11:57, Ralph Seichter wrote:
On 13.10.18 10:16, Stefan Müller wrote:

Sure /[hidden email]/ is fine for actively filtering, or for putting
everything into another folder, but every other mailing list I'm on
tags the list name in the subject.
Then you are not subscribed the right mailing lists. ;-)

Seriously, this discussion is almost as old as mailing lists. Rewriting
the subject adds clutter, messes with some MUAs, wastes screen estate on
devices with small screens (e.g. smartphones), and breaks DKIM.

Filtering by the existing "List-Id" header works just fine. Also, you
can use address extensions with your Google Mail (and many others),
meaning that you can have your mailing list messages automatically
filtered/labelled properly. Look at my address in this message, it
uses "+nginx" as an extension.

-Ralph
_______________________________________________
nginx mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mailman.nginx.org/mailman/listinfo/nginx

_______________________________________________
nginx mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mailman.nginx.org/mailman/listinfo/nginx
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Re: [nginx] Please add [nginx] to subject

Matthew VK3EVL
+1. Prepend would make it so much easier.

On 15 Oct 2018, at 06:14, Stefan Müller <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hallo,

getting a separate email per mailing list gets messy, as there are to many.

Currently I'm subscribed to some mailing lists covering similar things compared with nginx. If all of them would work without a prepend [list title] it would be a mess to distinguish them and focus on them which are currently important.
When I open an email app or get email notification, the notification focuses on the subject, so I have to open the mail to know to which list it belongs to.

A year ago there was the same discussion on [hidden email], resulting in a prepend [digiKam-users]. It could be a bit shorter but it enables me to see what email is digikam related at a glance and the remaining space for the subject title gives me enough context to decided if I shall read or delete it. I'm doing that on a mid class phone. 

[nginx] would be enough instead of [nginx-user], as nearly any mailing list do.

thank you

Stefan

On 13.10.2018 11:57, Ralph Seichter wrote:
On 13.10.18 10:16, Stefan Müller wrote:

Sure /[hidden email]/ is fine for actively filtering, or for putting
everything into another folder, but every other mailing list I'm on
tags the list name in the subject.
Then you are not subscribed the right mailing lists. ;-)

Seriously, this discussion is almost as old as mailing lists. Rewriting
the subject adds clutter, messes with some MUAs, wastes screen estate on
devices with small screens (e.g. smartphones), and breaks DKIM.

Filtering by the existing "List-Id" header works just fine. Also, you
can use address extensions with your Google Mail (and many others),
meaning that you can have your mailing list messages automatically
filtered/labelled properly. Look at my address in this message, it
uses "+nginx" as an extension.

-Ralph
_______________________________________________
nginx mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mailman.nginx.org/mailman/listinfo/nginx
_______________________________________________
nginx mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mailman.nginx.org/mailman/listinfo/nginx

_______________________________________________
nginx mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mailman.nginx.org/mailman/listinfo/nginx
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Re: Please DO NOT add [nginx] to subject

Ralph Seichter
In reply to this post by Stefan Mueller
On 14.10.18 21:14, Stefan Müller wrote:

> getting a separate email per mailing list gets messy, as there are to
> many.

It does not get messy at all. I have been using mailing lists since the
1980s, and if you're having trouble you are simply not doing it right.

I already explained that you can use mail address extensions with your
existing GMail address, but I can repeat: Subscribe to this mailing list
as [hidden email] and you're done. Add a GMail rule
"Set label nginx, skip Inbox" if you like. Dovecot can use extensions to
deliver into folders automatically.

I think that trying to make the list owners solve *your* issues is a sad
thing to do. Use labels or folders, that's what they are for. Ideally,
use List-xyz headers, because that's the reason they exist.

-Ralph
_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
http://mailman.nginx.org/mailman/listinfo/nginx
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Re: [nginx] Please add [nginx] to subject

Stefan Mueller
In reply to this post by Matthew VK3EVL
In answer to Ralph's reply. 
That is a very Gmail specific solution but, thanks god, not anyone is using Gmail. 
For them it needs other solutions. 
Anyway we should not focus on labeling / filtering what should possible in any email application but I cannot tell how much effort is needed to make it, it could be a real hassle. 

My main goal is to improve readability of my inbox. Besides being subscribed to mailing lists also member of a dozen discourse forums, what can be abused as mailing lists as well. 
If each of them wouldn't use some kind of prepend label my inbox and the the one of many others would be cluttered. 
Thanks to the label I see at a glance which list emailed me. 
The label can be easily incorporated in the subject. Making it part of the sentence is feasible. 

Stefan 

Sent from a fair mobile


Le dim. 14 oct. 2018 à 21:59, Matthew VK3EVL <[hidden email]> a écrit :
+1. Prepend would make it so much easier.

On 15 Oct 2018, at 06:14, Stefan Müller <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hallo,

getting a separate email per mailing list gets messy, as there are to many.

Currently I'm subscribed to some mailing lists covering similar things compared with nginx. If all of them would work without a prepend [list title] it would be a mess to distinguish them and focus on them which are currently important.
When I open an email app or get email notification, the notification focuses on the subject, so I have to open the mail to know to which list it belongs to.

A year ago there was the same discussion on [hidden email], resulting in a prepend [digiKam-users]. It could be a bit shorter but it enables me to see what email is digikam related at a glance and the remaining space for the subject title gives me enough context to decided if I shall read or delete it. I'm doing that on a mid class phone. 

[nginx] would be enough instead of [nginx-user], as nearly any mailing list do.

thank you

Stefan

On 13.10.2018 11:57, Ralph Seichter wrote:
On 13.10.18 10:16, Stefan Müller wrote:

Sure /[hidden email]/ is fine for actively filtering, or for putting
everything into another folder, but every other mailing list I'm on
tags the list name in the subject.
Then you are not subscribed the right mailing lists. ;-)

Seriously, this discussion is almost as old as mailing lists. Rewriting
the subject adds clutter, messes with some MUAs, wastes screen estate on
devices with small screens (e.g. smartphones), and breaks DKIM.

Filtering by the existing "List-Id" header works just fine. Also, you
can use address extensions with your Google Mail (and many others),
meaning that you can have your mailing list messages automatically
filtered/labelled properly. Look at my address in this message, it
uses "+nginx" as an extension.

-Ralph
_______________________________________________
nginx mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mailman.nginx.org/mailman/listinfo/nginx
_______________________________________________
nginx mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mailman.nginx.org/mailman/listinfo/nginx
_______________________________________________
nginx mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mailman.nginx.org/mailman/listinfo/nginx

_______________________________________________
nginx mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mailman.nginx.org/mailman/listinfo/nginx
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Re: [nginx] Please add [nginx] to subject

Gryzli Bugbear

+1 from me as well. I also think this will be of help to many users.

On 10/15/18 1:35 PM, Stefan Mueller wrote:
In answer to Ralph's reply. 
That is a very Gmail specific solution but, thanks god, not anyone is using Gmail. 
For them it needs other solutions. 
Anyway we should not focus on labeling / filtering what should possible in any email application but I cannot tell how much effort is needed to make it, it could be a real hassle. 

My main goal is to improve readability of my inbox. Besides being subscribed to mailing lists also member of a dozen discourse forums, what can be abused as mailing lists as well. 
If each of them wouldn't use some kind of prepend label my inbox and the the one of many others would be cluttered. 
Thanks to the label I see at a glance which list emailed me. 
The label can be easily incorporated in the subject. Making it part of the sentence is feasible. 

Stefan 

Sent from a fair mobile


Le dim. 14 oct. 2018 à 21:59, Matthew VK3EVL <[hidden email]> a écrit :
+1. Prepend would make it so much easier.

On 15 Oct 2018, at 06:14, Stefan Müller <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hallo,

getting a separate email per mailing list gets messy, as there are to many.

Currently I'm subscribed to some mailing lists covering similar things compared with nginx. If all of them would work without a prepend [list title] it would be a mess to distinguish them and focus on them which are currently important.
When I open an email app or get email notification, the notification focuses on the subject, so I have to open the mail to know to which list it belongs to.

A year ago there was the same discussion on [hidden email], resulting in a prepend [digiKam-users]. It could be a bit shorter but it enables me to see what email is digikam related at a glance and the remaining space for the subject title gives me enough context to decided if I shall read or delete it. I'm doing that on a mid class phone. 

[nginx] would be enough instead of [nginx-user], as nearly any mailing list do.

thank you

Stefan

On 13.10.2018 11:57, Ralph Seichter wrote:
On 13.10.18 10:16, Stefan Müller wrote:

Sure /[hidden email]/ is fine for actively filtering, or for putting
everything into another folder, but every other mailing list I'm on
tags the list name in the subject.
Then you are not subscribed the right mailing lists. ;-)

Seriously, this discussion is almost as old as mailing lists. Rewriting
the subject adds clutter, messes with some MUAs, wastes screen estate on
devices with small screens (e.g. smartphones), and breaks DKIM.

Filtering by the existing "List-Id" header works just fine. Also, you
can use address extensions with your Google Mail (and many others),
meaning that you can have your mailing list messages automatically
filtered/labelled properly. Look at my address in this message, it
uses "+nginx" as an extension.

-Ralph
_______________________________________________
nginx mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mailman.nginx.org/mailman/listinfo/nginx
_______________________________________________
nginx mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mailman.nginx.org/mailman/listinfo/nginx
_______________________________________________
nginx mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mailman.nginx.org/mailman/listinfo/nginx

_______________________________________________
nginx mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mailman.nginx.org/mailman/listinfo/nginx
--
-- Gryzli

https://gryzli.info


_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
http://mailman.nginx.org/mailman/listinfo/nginx
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RE: [nginx] Please add [nginx] to subject

Reinis Rozitis
In reply to this post by Stefan Mueller
> That is a very Gmail specific solution but, thanks god, not anyone is using Gmail.

It's not gmail specific option..
Most MTAs (if not all) (like for example Postfix (recipient_delimiter) / exim (local_part_suffix) etc ) support the 'user+tag@..' feature.


> My main goal is to improve readability of my inbox.

Is the subject the only way?

rr

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Re: Please DO NOT add [nginx] to subject

Ralph Seichter
In reply to this post by Stefan Mueller
On 15.10.18 12:35, Stefan Mueller wrote:

> In answer to Ralph's reply.

Why not reply to my message then?

> That is a very Gmail specific solution but, thanks god, not anyone is
> using Gmail. For them it needs other solutions.

No, it does not. Besides, are you trying to spin this to you looking out
for others? :-)

Address extensions are not GMail specific. Postfix, Sendmail, Qmail,
maildrop, Dovecot, Courier - the list goes on - all support extensions.
E-Mail existed long before Google Mail (which I don't use).

> Anyway we should not focus on labeling / filtering what should
> possible in any email application but I cannot tell how much effort
> is needed to make it, it could be a real hassle.

On the contrary, we should focus on filtering, and you indeed cannot
tell, and it is no hassle. You're making more baseless assumptions here.

> My main goal is to improve readability of my inbox.

There we go; it is about your preferences, not some greater good. Use
folders/labels to keep your Inbox clean, use List-Id and similar headers,
and it all works. Frankly, existing mailing lists conventions have proven
useful for decades, and I don't care about your Inbox in the greater
scheme of things. ;-)

-Ralph
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nginx mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mailman.nginx.org/mailman/listinfo/nginx
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Re: Please DO NOT add [nginx] to subject

Stefan Mueller
>   I don't care about your Inbox in the greater
> scheme of things
but is seems others do or at least agree with me

On 15.10.2018 14:29, Ralph Seichter wrote:

> On 15.10.18 12:35, Stefan Mueller wrote:
>
>> In answer to Ralph's reply.
> Why not reply to my message then?
>
>> That is a very Gmail specific solution but, thanks god, not anyone is
>> using Gmail. For them it needs other solutions.
> No, it does not. Besides, are you trying to spin this to you looking out
> for others? :-)
>
> Address extensions are not GMail specific. Postfix, Sendmail, Qmail,
> maildrop, Dovecot, Courier - the list goes on - all support extensions.
> E-Mail existed long before Google Mail (which I don't use).
>
>> Anyway we should not focus on labeling / filtering what should
>> possible in any email application but I cannot tell how much effort
>> is needed to make it, it could be a real hassle.
> On the contrary, we should focus on filtering, and you indeed cannot
> tell, and it is no hassle. You're making more baseless assumptions here.
>
>> My main goal is to improve readability of my inbox.
> There we go; it is about your preferences, not some greater good. Use
> folders/labels to keep your Inbox clean, use List-Id and similar headers,
> and it all works. Frankly, existing mailing lists conventions have proven
> useful for decades, and I don't care about your Inbox in the greater
> scheme of things. ;-)
>
> -Ralph
> _______________________________________________
> nginx mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mailman.nginx.org/mailman/listinfo/nginx
_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
http://mailman.nginx.org/mailman/listinfo/nginx
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Re: Please DO NOT add [nginx] to subject

Ralph Seichter
On 15.10.18 14:59, Stefan Müller wrote:

> but is seems others do or at least agree with me

So what if "others" agree with you? People agree with me as well, check
existing discussions about this issue.

If you challenge conventions that have been around for good reason, for
longer than some mailing list subscribers lived on this fair planet, you
better make a damn good case of it, based on evidence and not on your
limited personal experience in this particular matter (which is not
something to be ashamed of, just a learning opportunity). You have no
case, so why not accept the advice you have been offered?

-Ralph
_______________________________________________
nginx mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mailman.nginx.org/mailman/listinfo/nginx
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Re: Please DO NOT add [nginx] to subject

Stefan Mueller

why not accept the advice you have been offered?
I read up on email extension on Gizmodo and Wikipedia and I'm very familiar with filtering and labeling (all list based mails are labeled automatically) but I still believe that a adding [nginx] would make the situation more comfortable.

You have no case
My case is that when I open my email application on a phone or desktop occasionally throughout the day I want to see what I've got today at a glance without the need clicking / tabbing into sub folders. I open the app see what I came in and decide if it is important or can it be done later. In order to make this decision quicker a label in the subject would improve it enormously as you focus only on the subject during such actions.


Anyone else what to share her/his thoughts bedsides me and Ralph?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Email_address#Subaddressing

On 15.10.2018 15:16, Ralph Seichter wrote:
On 15.10.18 14:59, Stefan Müller wrote:

but is seems others do or at least agree with me
So what if "others" agree with you? People agree with me as well, check
existing discussions about this issue.

If you challenge conventions that have been around for good reason, for
longer than some mailing list subscribers lived on this fair planet, you
better make a damn good case of it, based on evidence and not on your
limited personal experience in this particular matter (which is not
something to be ashamed of, just a learning opportunity). You have no
case, so why not accept the advice you have been offered?

-Ralph
_______________________________________________
nginx mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mailman.nginx.org/mailman/listinfo/nginx

_______________________________________________
nginx mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mailman.nginx.org/mailman/listinfo/nginx
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Re: Please DO NOT add [nginx] to subject

Ralph Seichter
On 15.10.18 15:32, Stefan Müller wrote:

> I read up on email extension [...]

Thanks, I appreciate that.

> I still believe that a adding [nginx] would make the situation more
> comfortable.

And I firmly believe the disadvantages of subject rewriting outweigh the
percieved "comfort", based on providing email related services for more
than 30 years (and counting).

> when I open my email application on a phone or desktop occasionally
> throughout the day I want to see what I've got today at a glance
> without the need clicking / tabbing into sub folders.

Yeah, I got that, but I personally don't consider you not wanting to
perform an extra click a valid reason at all. I am not trying to be
dismissive in any way, I simply don't care.

All you need to organise your mailing list subscriptions is already
available. It is *your* problem, not anybody else's, to make use of
that data/process.

-Ralph
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[hidden email]
http://mailman.nginx.org/mailman/listinfo/nginx
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Re: Please DO NOT add [nginx] to subject

Lucas Rolff-2
In reply to this post by Stefan Mueller
Might be important to mention that services such as exchange doesn’t support subaddressing, so it’s a bit harder there :)

With that said, I’d love [nginx] in the header, regardless if it breaks DKIM or similar, I have mailing lists whitelisted anyway for that exact reason, because there’s already plenty of lists that break DKIM or SPF for that matter.

In my case, I don’t filter on mailing lists and put them in specific directories, they all end up in my inbox, and I click through them, if the subject interests me - and I see the email of the list, and know which list it’s from.

Additionally, I know most common names that post on the mailing list, so it’s easy to see which list it comes from ^_^

 

From: 20306775700n behalf of
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2018 3:32 PM
To: [hidden email]; Ralph Seichter
Subject: Re: Please DO NOT add [nginx] to subject
 

why not accept the advice you have been offered?
I read up on email extension on Gizmodo and Wikipedia and I'm very familiar with filtering and labeling (all list based mails are labeled automatically) but I still believe that a adding [nginx] would make the situation more comfortable.

You have no case
My case is that when I open my email application on a phone or desktop occasionally throughout the day I want to see what I've got today at a glance without the need clicking / tabbing into sub folders. I open the app see what I came in and decide if it is important or can it be done later. In order to make this decision quicker a label in the subject would improve it enormously as you focus only on the subject during such actions.


Anyone else what to share her/his thoughts bedsides me and Ralph?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Email_address#Subaddressing

On 15.10.2018 15:16, Ralph Seichter wrote:
On 15.10.18 14:59, Stefan Müller wrote:

but is seems others do or at least agree with me
So what if "others" agree with you? People agree with me as well, check
existing discussions about this issue.

If you challenge conventions that have been around for good reason, for
longer than some mailing list subscribers lived on this fair planet, you
better make a damn good case of it, based on evidence and not on your
limited personal experience in this particular matter (which is not
something to be ashamed of, just a learning opportunity). You have no
case, so why not accept the advice you have been offered?

-Ralph
_______________________________________________
nginx mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mailman.nginx.org/mailman/listinfo/nginx

_______________________________________________
nginx mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mailman.nginx.org/mailman/listinfo/nginx
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Re: Please DO NOT add [nginx] to subject

Ralph Seichter
On 15.10.18 15:55, Lucas Rolff wrote:

> Might be important to mention that services such as exchange doesn’t support
> subaddressing, so it’s a bit harder there :)

Well, Microsoft... Server-side filtering is simple enough, e.g. an "Inbox rule"
based on the List-Id header containing the string <nginx.nginx.org>.

> Additionally, I know most common names that post on the mailing list, so it’s
> easy to see which list it comes from ^_^

Yeah, some people tend to stand out (cough). ;-)

> Get Outlook for iOS [...]

Thanks, but no thanks. :-)

-Ralph
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Re: Please DO NOT add [nginx] to subject

Stefan Mueller
we tried our best anyone else trying not to burn one's fingers?

On 15.10.2018 16:29, Ralph Seichter wrote:

> On 15.10.18 15:55, Lucas Rolff wrote:
>
>> Might be important to mention that services such as exchange doesn’t support
>> subaddressing, so it’s a bit harder there :)
> Well, Microsoft... Server-side filtering is simple enough, e.g. an "Inbox rule"
> based on the List-Id header containing the string <nginx.nginx.org>.
>
>> Additionally, I know most common names that post on the mailing list, so it’s
>> easy to see which list it comes from ^_^
> Yeah, some people tend to stand out (cough). ;-)
>
>> Get Outlook for iOS [...]
> Thanks, but no thanks. :-)
>
> -Ralph
> _______________________________________________
> nginx mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mailman.nginx.org/mailman/listinfo/nginx
_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
http://mailman.nginx.org/mailman/listinfo/nginx
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Re: Please DO NOT add [nginx] to subject

Robert Paprocki
I think this thread has run it's course. Let's please move this discussion of this mailing list.

On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 11:29 AM Stefan Müller <[hidden email]> wrote:
we tried our best anyone else trying not to burn one's fingers?

On 15.10.2018 16:29, Ralph Seichter wrote:
> On 15.10.18 15:55, Lucas Rolff wrote:
>
>> Might be important to mention that services such as exchange doesn’t support
>> subaddressing, so it’s a bit harder there :)
> Well, Microsoft... Server-side filtering is simple enough, e.g. an "Inbox rule"
> based on the List-Id header containing the string <nginx.nginx.org>.
>
>> Additionally, I know most common names that post on the mailing list, so it’s
>> easy to see which list it comes from ^_^
> Yeah, some people tend to stand out (cough). ;-)
>
>> Get Outlook for iOS [...]
> Thanks, but no thanks. :-)
>
> -Ralph
> _______________________________________________
> nginx mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mailman.nginx.org/mailman/listinfo/nginx
_______________________________________________
nginx mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mailman.nginx.org/mailman/listinfo/nginx

_______________________________________________
nginx mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mailman.nginx.org/mailman/listinfo/nginx