TLSv1.3 by default?

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TLSv1.3 by default?

vergil
Hi,

Why isn't 1.3 enabled by default (when available)?

Syntax: ssl_protocols [SSLv2] [SSLv3] [TLSv1] [TLSv1.1] [TLSv1.2]
[TLSv1.3];
Default:
ssl_protocols TLSv1 TLSv1.1 TLSv1.2;

http://nginx.org/en/docs/http/ngx_http_ssl_module.html#ssl_protocols

Posted at Nginx Forum: https://forum.nginx.org/read.php?2,282098,282098#msg-282098

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Re: TLSv1.3 by default?

Maxim Dounin
Hello!

On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 08:43:03AM -0500, Olaf van der Spek wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Why isn't 1.3 enabled by default (when available)?
>
> Syntax: ssl_protocols [SSLv2] [SSLv3] [TLSv1] [TLSv1.1] [TLSv1.2]
> [TLSv1.3];
> Default:
> ssl_protocols TLSv1 TLSv1.1 TLSv1.2;
>
> http://nginx.org/en/docs/http/ngx_http_ssl_module.html#ssl_protocols

The main reason is that when it was implemented, TLSv1.3 RFC
wasn't yet finalized, and TLSv1.3 was only available via various
drafts, and only with pre-release versions of OpenSSL.

Now with RFC 8446 published and OpenSSL 1.1.1 with TLSv1.3
released this probably can be reconsidered.  On the other hand,
enabling TLSv1.3 is known to break at least some configurations,
see here for an example:

https://serverfault.com/questions/932102/nginx-ssl-handshake-error-no-suitable-key-share

Also, due to different approach to configure ciphers, "ssl_ciphers
aNULL;" will no longer work as a way to indicate no SSL support
with TLSv1.3 enabled (https://trac.nginx.org/nginx/ticket/195).

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Maxim Dounin
http://mdounin.ru/
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Re: TLSv1.3 by default?

vergil
What's the recommendation for distros? Should they explicitly enable
TLSv1.3?
Ideally they'd just stick to upstream defaults, hence my question about the
default.

Posted at Nginx Forum: https://forum.nginx.org/read.php?2,282098,282108#msg-282108

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Re: TLSv1.3 by default?

Maxim Dounin
Hello!

On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 01:05:55PM -0500, Olaf van der Spek wrote:

> What's the recommendation for distros? Should they explicitly enable
> TLSv1.3?
> Ideally they'd just stick to upstream defaults, hence my question about the
> default.

The recommendation for distros is to don't mess with the defaults.

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Re: TLSv1.3 by default?

vergil
Maxim Dounin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Hello!
>
> On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 01:05:55PM -0500, Olaf van der Spek wrote:
>
> > What's the recommendation for distros? Should they explicitly enable
> > TLSv1.3?
> > Ideally they'd just stick to upstream defaults, hence my question
> about the
> > default.
>
> The recommendation for distros is to don't mess with the defaults.

Should they use the 'defaults' from the stock nginx.conf or the defaults
from the binary / docs? ;)

Posted at Nginx Forum: https://forum.nginx.org/read.php?2,282098,282110#msg-282110

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Re: TLSv1.3 by default?

vergil
Olaf van der Spek Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Maxim Dounin Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > Hello!
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 01:05:55PM -0500, Olaf van der Spek wrote:
> >
> > > What's the recommendation for distros? Should they explicitly
> enable
> > > TLSv1.3?
> > > Ideally they'd just stick to upstream defaults, hence my question
> > about the
> > > default.
> >
> > The recommendation for distros is to don't mess with the defaults.
>
> Should they use the 'defaults' from the stock nginx.conf or the
> defaults from the binary / docs? ;)


Maxim?

Posted at Nginx Forum: https://forum.nginx.org/read.php?2,282098,282157#msg-282157

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Re: TLSv1.3 by default?

Maxim Dounin
Hello!

On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 03:07:25AM -0500, Olaf van der Spek wrote:

> Olaf van der Spek Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > Maxim Dounin Wrote:
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > > Hello!
> > >
> > > On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 01:05:55PM -0500, Olaf van der Spek wrote:
> > >
> > > > What's the recommendation for distros? Should they explicitly
> > enable
> > > > TLSv1.3?
> > > > Ideally they'd just stick to upstream defaults, hence my question
> > > about the
> > > > default.
> > >
> > > The recommendation for distros is to don't mess with the defaults.
> >
> > Should they use the 'defaults' from the stock nginx.conf or the
> > defaults from the binary / docs? ;)
>
>
> Maxim?

There is no such thing as "defaults from the stock nginx.conf".  
The nginx.conf file can be used to set various configuration
parameters.

Obviously enough, distributions may need to set something in
nginx.conf they ship with nginx packages differently from what is
configured in example configuration as available in nginx sources,
conf/nginx.conf.  Though my recommendation would be to keep
configuration shipped as close to conf/nginx.conf as possible, and
don't diverge from it unless there are good reasons to.

As for TLSv1.3, the TLSv1.3 protocol is currently disabled by
default in nginx.  Distributions shouldn't try to enable it
(either way) unless there are very good reasons to do so.

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Maxim Dounin
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Re: TLSv1.3 by default?

vergil
Maxim Dounin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is no such thing as "defaults from the stock nginx.conf".  
> The nginx.conf file can be used to set various configuration
> parameters.
>
> Obviously enough, distributions may need to set something in
> nginx.conf they ship with nginx packages differently from what is
> configured in example configuration as available in nginx sources,
> conf/nginx.conf.  Though my recommendation would be to keep

That's the file I meant.

> configuration shipped as close to conf/nginx.conf as possible, and
> don't diverge from it unless there are good reasons to.

OK, but that file sets some settings differently from documented defaults,
which is kinda confusing.
Wouldn't it make sense to not do that?

I'd prefer the nginx.conf to be as clean and simple as possible.

Posted at Nginx Forum: https://forum.nginx.org/read.php?2,282098,282172#msg-282172

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Re: TLSv1.3 by default?

Maxim Dounin
Hello!

On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 02:29:26PM -0500, Olaf van der Spek wrote:

> Maxim Dounin Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > There is no such thing as "defaults from the stock nginx.conf".  
> > The nginx.conf file can be used to set various configuration
> > parameters.
> >
> > Obviously enough, distributions may need to set something in
> > nginx.conf they ship with nginx packages differently from what is
> > configured in example configuration as available in nginx sources,
> > conf/nginx.conf.  Though my recommendation would be to keep
>
> That's the file I meant.
>
> > configuration shipped as close to conf/nginx.conf as possible, and
> > don't diverge from it unless there are good reasons to.
>
> OK, but that file sets some settings differently from documented defaults,
> which is kinda confusing.
> Wouldn't it make sense to not do that?
>
> I'd prefer the nginx.conf to be as clean and simple as possible.

As I already tried to explain in Trac ticket #1681, one of the
important goals of conf/nginx.conf, as well as any other default
configuration file, is to demonstrate how various things can be
tuned.  If this is still not clear, I don't think that repeating
this explanation would help.  Sorry about that.

--
Maxim Dounin
http://mdounin.ru/
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Re: TLSv1.3 by default?

vergil
Maxim Dounin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> > OK, but that file sets some settings differently from documented
> defaults,
> > which is kinda confusing.
> > Wouldn't it make sense to not do that?
> >
> > I'd prefer the nginx.conf to be as clean and simple as possible.
>
> As I already tried to explain in Trac ticket #1681, one of the
> important goals of conf/nginx.conf, as well as any other default
> configuration file, is to demonstrate how various things can be
> tuned.  

This is mostly done by comments.. though I'd argue a link to a HTML document
would be better to explain things.

> If this is still not clear, I don't think that repeating
> this explanation would help.  Sorry about that.

Didn't realise that was you..
So should a 'default' install of nginx end up with default_type
application/octet-stream, with default_type text/plain or would both be fine
with you?

Posted at Nginx Forum: https://forum.nginx.org/read.php?2,282098,282175#msg-282175

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Re: TLSv1.3 by default?

vergil
In reply to this post by Maxim Dounin
Maxim Dounin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 08:43:03AM -0500, Olaf van der Spek wrote:
> >
> > Why isn't 1.3 enabled by default (when available)?
> >
> > Syntax: ssl_protocols [SSLv2] [SSLv3] [TLSv1] [TLSv1.1] [TLSv1.2]
> > [TLSv1.3];
> > Default:
> > ssl_protocols TLSv1 TLSv1.1 TLSv1.2;
> >
> > http://nginx.org/en/docs/http/ngx_http_ssl_module.html#ssl_protocols
>
> The main reason is that when it was implemented, TLSv1.3 RFC
> wasn't yet finalized, and TLSv1.3 was only available via various
> drafts, and only with pre-release versions of OpenSSL.
>
> Now with RFC 8446 published and OpenSSL 1.1.1 with TLSv1.3
> released this probably can be reconsidered.  On the other hand,

Has this been reconsidered yet?

Posted at Nginx Forum: https://forum.nginx.org/read.php?2,282098,288063#msg-288063

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Re: TLSv1.3 by default?

Maxim Dounin
Hello!

On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 12:13:20PM -0400, Olaf van der Spek wrote:

> Maxim Dounin Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 08:43:03AM -0500, Olaf van der Spek wrote:
> > >
> > > Why isn't 1.3 enabled by default (when available)?
> > >
> > > Syntax: ssl_protocols [SSLv2] [SSLv3] [TLSv1] [TLSv1.1] [TLSv1.2]
> > > [TLSv1.3];
> > > Default:
> > > ssl_protocols TLSv1 TLSv1.1 TLSv1.2;
> > >
> > > http://nginx.org/en/docs/http/ngx_http_ssl_module.html#ssl_protocols
> >
> > The main reason is that when it was implemented, TLSv1.3 RFC
> > wasn't yet finalized, and TLSv1.3 was only available via various
> > drafts, and only with pre-release versions of OpenSSL.
> >
> > Now with RFC 8446 published and OpenSSL 1.1.1 with TLSv1.3
> > released this probably can be reconsidered.  On the other hand,
>
> Has this been reconsidered yet?

Not yet.  Blockers listed in the original message, notably
"ssl_ciphers aNULL;" being non-functional with TLSv1.3
(https://trac.nginx.org/nginx/ticket/195), still apply.

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Maxim Dounin
http://mdounin.ru/
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